Comments on: Rutten on American Apparel firings http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/ Lizard people dude. Seriously. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 03:54:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mitchell Young http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44590 Mitchell Young Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:37:58 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44590 Why bother having an apparel industry in the US if the workers are 90% foreign -- as it the owner of AA? There is certainly no reason to have a low value added industry like apparel in one of the most expensive areas to live in the US. Simply running the numbers will show that workers getting paid $10-12/hr are not even coming close to paying their way in California in terms of taxes, especially if they have children. Charney would have been better off immigrating to Mexico and building his business there -- of course then he wouldn't be able to enjoy all the benefits of US society -- respect for law and order being one of those. Why bother having an apparel industry in the US if the workers are 90% foreign — as it the owner of AA? There is certainly no reason to have a low value added industry like apparel in one of the most expensive areas to live in the US. Simply running the numbers will show that workers getting paid $10-12/hr are not even coming close to paying their way in California in terms of taxes, especially if they have children. Charney would have been better off immigrating to Mexico and building his business there — of course then he wouldn’t be able to enjoy all the benefits of US society — respect for law and order being one of those.

]]> By: JY http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44589 JY Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:24:20 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44589 CP got it on the raid. Sex panic is probably what a lot of women feel when the bespectacled bridge troll comes down the halls of American Apparel. It goes beyond his superficial nature as it creates a pervasive environment for sexual harassment that is in its own form is a civil rights violation and is as egregious as many of the other sweat shop practices that take place in the garment industry in LA. Dov has been charged and settled many sexual harassment suits brought against him by his own employees and those that don't like his behavior are eventually forced out of American Apparel. I'm all for what American Apparel can represent as a powerful way to keep garment jobs in Los Angeles/USA, but the reality of the competitive nature of the apparel business is that eventually many of the best practices in product quality, wages, work environment are eroded away to remain competitive with offshore labor costs. AA early in its infancy made more money in terms of operating profit than much larger Hanes Brands, an incredible feat, but AA has come down to earth and now is run on very narrow profit margins and is hemorrhaging money. Some of it due to Dov's mismanagement and some due to external factors, but the net effect is that he too has no choice to sirupticiously follow the more unsavory business practices in order to stay in business. AA continues to be represented as a beacon of hope in the US Apparel Industry, but the reality is its not any better or any worse than many of the fucked up business and employment practices that happen in the apparel industry, although Dov would certainly like you to think they are the exception. Los Angeles and the Federal government must be willing to provide more support to keeping apparel companies, this includes large and small manufacturers in LA and the country, through increased training for workers so LA and the rest of the country can keep it apparel workers competitive on the cutting edge of new technologies that can't be done as easily overseas. Consumers must also be more open to being a bit more selective in products and goods that they buy and perhaps pay a bit more or the overall decline in the apparel industry will not change and wages for workers illegal or not will remain under pressure and apparel jobs will continue to leave Los Angeles and the USA for more competitive climes. For those of those interested in supporting local designers and small up and coming apparel companies I would direct you to Fashion Business Inc. its a good organization http://fashionbizinc.org/ CP got it on the raid. Sex panic is probably what a lot of women feel when the bespectacled bridge troll comes down the halls of American Apparel. It goes beyond his superficial nature as it creates a pervasive environment for sexual harassment that is in its own form is a civil rights violation and is as egregious as many of the other sweat shop practices that take place in the garment industry in LA. Dov has been charged and settled many sexual harassment suits brought against him by his own employees and those that don’t like his behavior are eventually forced out of American Apparel.

I’m all for what American Apparel can represent as a powerful way to keep garment jobs in Los Angeles/USA, but the reality of the competitive nature of the apparel business is that eventually many of the best practices in product quality, wages, work environment are eroded away to remain competitive with offshore labor costs. AA early in its infancy made more money in terms of operating profit than much larger Hanes Brands, an incredible feat, but AA has come down to earth and now is run on very narrow profit margins and is hemorrhaging money. Some of it due to Dov’s mismanagement and some due to external factors, but the net effect is that he too has no choice to sirupticiously follow the more unsavory business practices in order to stay in business.

AA continues to be represented as a beacon of hope in the US Apparel Industry, but the reality is its not any better or any worse than many of the fucked up business and employment practices that happen in the apparel industry, although Dov would certainly like you to think they are the exception.

Los Angeles and the Federal government must be willing to provide more support to keeping apparel companies, this includes large and small manufacturers in LA and the country, through increased training for workers so LA and the rest of the country can keep it apparel workers competitive on the cutting edge of new technologies that can’t be done as easily overseas. Consumers must also be more open to being a bit more selective in products and goods that they buy and perhaps pay a bit more or the overall decline in the apparel industry will not change and wages for workers illegal or not will remain under pressure and apparel jobs will continue to leave Los Angeles and the USA for more competitive climes.

For those of those interested in supporting local designers and small up and coming apparel companies I would direct you to Fashion Business Inc. its a good organization

http://fashionbizinc.org/

]]> By: David Markland http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44588 David Markland Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:56:44 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44588 I think JY's comments just speak to the superficial nature of Dov Charney. But on a more immediate, tangible level, forcing more people out of work right now with social services being overwhelmed is a very poor idea. Its unlikely it will result in the undocumented workers packing up their families and returning to their home countries, and instead just places a larger burden on everyone. On the flip side, if you're looking for a job at American Apparel, I hear there are a large number of openings. I think JY’s comments just speak to the superficial nature of Dov Charney.

But on a more immediate, tangible level, forcing more people out of work right now with social services being overwhelmed is a very poor idea. Its unlikely it will result in the undocumented workers packing up their families and returning to their home countries, and instead just places a larger burden on everyone.

On the flip side, if you’re looking for a job at American Apparel, I hear there are a large number of openings.

]]> By: Chal Pivik http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44587 Chal Pivik Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:50:36 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44587 JY, first, there was no raid. Got that? None. Second, although sex panic is once again all the rage among selectively puritanical legions, it has nothing to do with this issue. Btw, LAT has an editorial in today's paper saying the firings "will cause as much real harm to Los Angeles as it will imaginary good." http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-apparel5-2009oct05,0,5462529.story JY, first, there was no raid. Got that? None.

Second, although sex panic is once again all the rage among selectively puritanical legions, it has nothing to do with this issue.

Btw, LAT has an editorial in today’s paper saying the firings “will cause as much real harm to Los Angeles as it will imaginary good.”

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-apparel5-2009oct05,0,5462529.story

]]> By: JY http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44586 JY Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:22:06 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44586 If you spend some time researching AA and especially Dov you find that this guy has a long history of sexual harassment claims and settlements. I would direct you to his interview in Women's Wear Daily where he's getting sucked off by a female employee in the middle of interview. As evidenced by the raid Dov hires many illegal immigrants but says he gives them decent wages, benefits and hours, when nothing could be further from the truth, but it makes for a great brand image and marketing to promote himself in that light. Do some research talk to more employees who have been forced out of the company or find some that are not afraid to talk and the truth will come to light. Dov is a very sophisticated spin-meister and you just swallowed the turd he fed you... If you spend some time researching AA and especially Dov you find that this guy has a long history of sexual harassment claims and settlements. I would direct you to his interview in Women’s Wear Daily where he’s getting sucked off by a female employee in the middle of interview. As evidenced by the raid Dov hires many illegal immigrants but says he gives them decent wages, benefits and hours, when nothing could be further from the truth, but it makes for a great brand image and marketing to promote himself in that light. Do some research talk to more employees who have been forced out of the company or find some that are not afraid to talk and the truth will come to light. Dov is a very sophisticated spin-meister and you just swallowed the turd he fed you…

]]> By: David Markland http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44585 David Markland Mon, 05 Oct 2009 07:01:44 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44585 The flawed logic I see is the assumption that undocumented workers aren't being exploited by American Apparel in the first place. If AA has been hiring a large number of illegal immigrants, it isn't out of compassion. Its because its the cheapest labor they can get. I'm not going to criticize AA for their hiring practices - but echoing the above, both the company and its employers shouldn't whine when the laws that other businesses do follow are enforced. But mainly, the exploitive spin they're trying to put on it is disgusting. The flawed logic I see is the assumption that undocumented workers aren’t being exploited by American Apparel in the first place.
If AA has been hiring a large number of illegal immigrants, it isn’t out of compassion. Its because its the cheapest labor they can get.
I’m not going to criticize AA for their hiring practices – but echoing the above, both the company and its employers shouldn’t whine when the laws that other businesses do follow are enforced.
But mainly, the exploitive spin they’re trying to put on it is disgusting.

]]> By: Todd http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44584 Todd Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:46:41 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44584 By all means, let's change the law. But for the time being, people shouldn't act surprised when it's enforced. By all means, let’s change the law. But for the time being, people shouldn’t act surprised when it’s enforced.

]]> By: Matt Mason http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44583 Matt Mason Sun, 04 Oct 2009 18:38:08 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44583 Jenn, the law contains an "employment verification system" which includes a list of "documents establishing both employment authorization and identity." The law requires employers to check for this proof before hiring someone (or, put another way, it holds employers liable if they don't check and they hire an undocumented worker, which means, duh, employers need to check). If the employers cannot verify this information, it's illegal for them to hire the worker. They are not permitted to sit around and either play dumb, wink twice, or fail to due their due diligence and just wait for the government to tell them later that a worker is undocumented. The fact that there is no "central" database of immigration, residency, or citizenship status information is irrelevant. Jenn, the law contains an “employment verification system” which includes a list of “documents establishing both employment authorization and identity.” The law requires employers to check for this proof before hiring someone (or, put another way, it holds employers liable if they don’t check and they hire an undocumented worker, which means, duh, employers need to check). If the employers cannot verify this information, it’s illegal for them to hire the worker. They are not permitted to sit around and either play dumb, wink twice, or fail to due their due diligence and just wait for the government to tell them later that a worker is undocumented. The fact that there is no “central” database of immigration, residency, or citizenship status information is irrelevant.

]]> By: alexgp http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44582 alexgp Sun, 04 Oct 2009 08:23:22 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44582 Thank you for pointing out the humanity angle here and I applaud Rutten for doing the same. I don't know if you read/saw Mr. Charney's photo essay about marching with the workers but it's pretty touching. To the commentors above, I say that if this is what enforcing the "law" brings us, we ought to think seriously about the validity of that law. http://www.americanapparel.net/presscenter/dailyupdate/dailyUp.asp?d=30&t=1848 http://www.americanapparel.net/contact/legalizela/Dovs-Farewell-Letter.pdf Thank you for pointing out the humanity angle here and I applaud Rutten for doing the same. I don’t know if you read/saw Mr. Charney’s photo essay about marching with the workers but it’s pretty touching. To the commentors above, I say that if this is what enforcing the “law” brings us, we ought to think seriously about the validity of that law.

http://www.americanapparel.net/presscenter/dailyupdate/dailyUp.asp?d=30&t=1848
http://www.americanapparel.net/contact/legalizela/Dovs-Farewell-Letter.pdf

]]> By: Jenn http://blogging.la/2009/10/03/rutten-on-american-apparel-firings/comment-page-1/#comment-44581 Jenn Sun, 04 Oct 2009 08:14:04 +0000 http://la.metblogs.com/?p=34785#comment-44581 Matt, believe it or not, that's the problem in a nutshell. It was the government who comes in with boxes of papers and tells employers which of their workers is illegal and has fake documents. There is no central electronic database for companies to use. Since a company like American Apparel isn't using "illegal" label for exploitative purposes, you can bet they would have avoided the problem if they could of. Therein lies the real mess that is 2009 immigration policy in the US. Employers are hamstrung and actually unable verify the status of their employees, putting them at risk of violating the law. Matt, believe it or not, that’s the problem in a nutshell. It was the government who comes in with boxes of papers and tells employers which of their workers is illegal and has fake documents. There is no central electronic database for companies to use. Since a company like American Apparel isn’t using “illegal” label for exploitative purposes, you can bet they would have avoided the problem if they could of.

Therein lies the real mess that is 2009 immigration policy in the US. Employers are hamstrung and actually unable verify the status of their employees, putting them at risk of violating the law.

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